Martyn originally published this interview on Oct 1st, 2007, for The Friends of English Magic (foem.org.uk).
Martyn: Matthew (Vaughn) has obviously worked extremely hard to finance much of the film himself (from what I’ve been reading), rather than relying entirely on studio money. I assume that, because of that, you both have more creative control over the process. Did that affect the screenplay’s development? Did Paramount ‘interfere’ or demand any particular changes to the script, or even during editing?
Jane: Well, they weren’t actually involved at the development stage. Matthew and I developed the script together (and we had the great benefit of Neil giving us feedback at various stages, of course), and then Paramount bought it. Of course they had opinions at the edit stage, but opinions are a good thing, and I don’t recall any that differed too dramatically from our own instincts, or Neil’s, or those of our brilliant editor.
Martyn: Have you had any particularly frustrating moments while writing the screenplay? How many drafts did it take in the end, and how often did it require rewriting because someone thought of something new that might work?
Jane: We never went back to square one, so the first draft isn’t a million miles away from the finished movie. Budget and schedule prompted some tinkering, which is always sad but unavoidable. But tinkering when someone comes up with something new and good is always a pleasure. I see it as polishing rather than rewriting, and there was plenty of that. They were always modest revisions, though, not new drafts. We did plenty of minor tinkering in production, and even on set, because nothing’s more inspiring than seeing the story unfold in front of you.
A lot of the most experimental changes tend to happen in the editing suite afterwards, though. It’s then that you get to try scenes shorter, break long scenes into two parts, or run two scenes together, or switch round the order in which we see things happen – you can play around a lot more and actually discover right away whether it works or not in terms of how the story builds and flows.
Martyn: Do you know why, despite the film being shot in the UK, using UK post-production facilities, and taking advantage of the government’s tax break system, we’re one of the last countries on the list to receive the film’s theatrical release, according to the IMDb release schedule?
Jane: It certainly wasn’t something imposed from outside. I was at the international marketing meeting where they finalised the dates, and reps from different territories had dates they were happy with. The UK date was no exception; the UK distributors proposed it. It was their date of choice.
A simultaneous release with the US just wouldn’t have given the movie the fairest shot at reaching its audience. Whereas Summer is THE time for cinema-going in the USA, it’s much less the case in the UK, I believe, and August is apparently especially quiet; I guess we Brits like to get outside more and make the most of the good weather while it lasts! Also, I understand August is the most popular month for UK residents to go on holiday.
Since the movie was released, October has been the next big, good month for our kind of movie to come out. It coincides with the school half term, so it’s a big movie-going week, and I have also been told it’s historically when movies in a vein similar to Stardust thrive best. For all those reasons, the people whose job it is to know and decide these things deemed that date the top choice for the UK release.
Martyn: Given Captain Shakespeare’s extended role in the film, does that mean he has more influence over how the film ends? The trailer makes it clear he’s a major force in helping Tristan and Yvaine by teaching Tristan sword fighting. I also notice in the trailer that Tristan is doing *a lot* more sword fighting in the movie than I remember from the book.
Jane: No, I wouldn’t say Shakespeare influences the film’s ending. I’d also say the most important part of his influence on Tristan’s development is emotional, not practical. Don’t worry – we haven’t turned Stardust into Karate Kid! He’s really not a mentor in that sense, and Stardust isn’t a story where fighting skills of any kind would make sense as the key to achievement or survival. I don’t want to give anything away, but I do want to assure you that it is absolutely not a case of “Tristan learns to sword fight and ultimately uses his new skills to defeat the baddies.” That’s not even close.
Physical sequences work well in trailers because they’re dynamic, so trailers tend to be made of them, even if the film’s personality shows up just as readily elsewhere. (And I encourage FoEM readers to check out Neil Gaiman’s recent journal entry on this subject for some very wise words). There is some sword-fighting in the film, but not an unusually large amount, and it’s not a film in which the main objectives are achieved through fighting, if you get me.
I see a subtext to your question, and I’d like to address it by promising you that the mood and the smartness and humour and human drama of Stardust, the book, and all the things that you and the readers of FoEM – and Matthew and I – all love about the book are all there in the movie. The trailer is, in a sense, designed for people who aren’t familiar with the book – it communicates the essence of the story, and it hopefully also communicates that the story is going to be exciting and funny and romantic and beautiful to look at and is going to be told by a cast of great actors.
Martyn: Was Ferdy the Fence specifically written with Rick Gervais in mind? If he had refused, could anyone else have pulled it off?
Jane: In answer to your first question, yes and no. The character came first, and initially, Matthew and I discussed him as a traditional “hard man” type. But the moment we started talking about Ricky, Ferdy completely shifted in our minds, and the character became much more interesting and complex, more of a weasel, more of a con artist. Creepier and more of a liability, but also more hapless, deluded, and ultimately more sympathetic. All qualities Ricky can bring so brilliantly to life. So in that sense, the part became absolutely Ricky’s, and the Ferdy of the film is someone that no one else could have played in the same way.
I’ve no idea who we’d have approached if he’d said no, but fortunately he didn’t, so we never had to think about it!
Martyn: I’ve been thinking about the various comparisons in the press (mainly from the preview audiences) that Stardust resembles The Princess Bride and The Pirates of the Caribbean. Who would win a sword fight between Tristan Thorn, Inigo Montoya, and Captain Jack Sparrow?
Jane: Well, I’d have to say probably not Tristan. I can’t imagine him even wanting to get involved in a sword fight unless he really had to, for some reason he felt really passionate about.
Skill-wise, I’d probably put my money on Inigo, especially if Captain Jack had been drinking, but Jack seems to be one of those guys with luck on his side, so I imagine a piece of heavy furniture might fall on Inigo at the last minute.
I wouldn’t like to see them fight, though. I’d hate any of them to get hurt. I like them all too much. Could they perhaps all wrestle each other instead? I’d definitely watch that.
From “Stez”: Do you think the finished Stormhold looks every bit as lavish as you imagined?
Jane: I really do. Matthew had a very clear idea of how he wanted everything to look, and the production designer, Gavin Bocquet, is incredible. Matthew and I have always been uncannily on the same page, so I don’t think Stormhold is anything wildly different from how I pictured it. It really does look breathtaking.
As a writer, it was incredibly exciting to see little bits and pieces that I’d thought of suddenly sprung into three glorious dimensions. And of course, Neil has that sense ten times over. We were talking about it as we walked around the flying pirate ship when he visited the set one day. It was a gigantic, beautiful, life-size, actual ship, and dozens of guys were beavering away to finish it. Of course, the oddest thing he noticed as we surveyed the scene was that it takes a writer mere seconds to type “a flying pirate ship”, which you blithely key into your laptop while taking a sip of tea… Then it takes a vast team several months to actually build it!
From “emilyrln”: What would you say was the most difficult part of the book to adapt?
Jane: I’m not sure if I can think of a particular part. But the most challenging thing about adapting any book – including this one – is essentially having to condense a story that takes several hours to tell (most books, if you shot them scene for scene, would end up over six hours long) into one that you can tell in around two hours, whilst still retaining the essence of everything that is wonderful about the book. You always have to sacrifice things you love; it’s unavoidable, and that’s always difficult.
I guess that one challenge particular to Stardust was that in the “third act” – in other words, the part where all the different storylines resolve – things happen separately and in turn, whereas Neil, Matthew and I all felt that for the movie, it would work best to try and bring all the storylines together. That happened quite naturally and organically, in a way we were happy with, but it was certainly a challenge. Then again, I enjoy a challenge, so I wasn’t complaining!
From “emilyrln”: Were there any parts of the book which you particularly wanted to keep in the script but which proved to be incompatible with the movie (technical/thematic/time issues, et cetera)?
Jane: I loved certain parts of the book, but I suspected from the start we probably couldn’t keep them in the movie.
When books are adapted, these issues almost always come down to time and pacing. To tell Tristan’s story in sufficient depth and see his relationship with Yvaine develop, he needed to meet her sooner rather than later. And that in itself dictated quite a lot.
There is always an argument for keeping things in just for the sake of atmosphere and colour, even if they don’t contribute to keeping the main plot moving, but there is another, much stronger argument for keeping movies at a reasonable length – I can think of one particular movie from last year that was hugely entertaining and likeable but that I would have loved SO much more had it been about half an hour shorter. In movies, I truly believe that you CAN have too much of a good thing. So while it’s always sad to cut bits you love, it’s part of the job, and as a writer, you have to make peace with it.
Of course, having Neil as such an intrinsic part of the project made those moments of sacrifice much easier. If he was comfortable with changes, then I felt that I had no right to lament them! I love the book as a reader, and I know it’s easy to develop a powerful sense of ownership, but it is his creation. So it was a great benefit to draw strength and comfort from his creative, pragmatic approach to the adaptation.
From “emilyrln”: What is your favourite scene from the movie, and why?
Jane: It’s really hard to pick a favourite scene, as I’m fond of so many. There’s a great sequence around halfway through where several of our characters’ paths intersect for the first time – for those who have read the book, I’ll just say it’s at the Inn that is created by the Witch Queen (who, in the film, is called Lamia and is played by Michelle Pfeiffer). It’s absolutely brimming with tension, danger, a dash of humour, and a few surprises, and it still delights me every time I watch it.
There’s also a beautiful romantic scene I’m very fond of between Tristan and Yvaine much later on, where they talk at cross purposes and connect without fully connecting yet. Charlie and Claire’s acting is wonderful in that scene; the chemistry is magical, and they, and the whole scene, just look gorgeous.
Humour-wise, I also adore a scene of treachery and subterfuge that takes place between Septimus, Primus and Tertius over the coffin of their late father, and there’s another that I think everybody loves involving Captain Shakespeare (who is Captain Alberic in the book), but which I can’t say too much about, as it’s not in the book and is a great surprise and seriously funny. And Ricky Gervais’s scenes are just as brilliant as you’d imagine. His timing is incomparable, and he and DeNiro together are a delight.
The final showdown with Septimus, Tristan, and Lamia is also incredibly cool and still thrills me.
See… I told you I found it hard to choose!
Martyn: Based on your experience with Stardust, would you do this all again?
Jane: You bet! Although I acknowledge that my experience as a writer is atypical. I really have Matthew to thank for making it such a rich experience. Writers are often out of the picture once the script is finished, but I’ve had the privilege of being part of the production team from beginning to end. It’s been wonderful, educational and hugely satisfying, and Matthew has completely ruined me for other directors! He’s a hard act to follow.
And of course, I’m eternally grateful to Neil for introducing me to Matthew in the first place and for trusting me with his wonderful book. The whole thing has been a delight.
Martyn: Has the experience been a good one? Is there anything you would do differently?
Jane: See above. And no, I don’t think I’d do anything differently, except perhaps eat slightly fewer of the far-too-delicious puddings from the catering truck. I’ve only just recently managed to get back into my pre-Stardust jeans!
Seriously, though, although I’ve certainly learned an enormous amount about working on a big-budget movie, and I know that everything I’ve learned will greatly inform my approach to my next project, I’m just thrilled with how Stardust has turned out, and there really isn’t anything I’d want to do differently.
Martyn: Is there any chance the screenplay could be published as a book (perhaps with pictures and notes to accompany it)?
Jane: Yes, we’ll publish a draft of the screenplay in the “Making of” book, which will be released to accompany the film. It’s essentially the shooting draft, but Matthew and I also decided to put back in a lot of the lines and scenes that were cut for length or budget reasons, as a kind of printed equivalent of a DVD ‘deleted scenes’ bonus feature. So the draft isn’t the exact screenplay you see onscreen, nor is it a complete early draft, but rather a mixture of earlier and later drafts put together.
Martyn: Do you have any plans (concrete or otherwise) to develop more screenplays you can tell us about? Any other movie projects on the horizon?
Jane: I’m afraid I can’t share details right now, but more generally, Matthew and I definitely intend to work together again in the future, which I couldn’t be more delighted about.